Talk:Mount Warning

geology

The national parks tourist information is not accurate. Having the geology, volcanology history of Mount Warning from this brochure is bad use of resources. Wiki contributors should be citing scientific information for scientific matters. 1. we will never know if there was actually a caldera on Mount Warning. 2. mount warning was not uplifted after the eruption. 3. the mount warning complex is different mineralogically and in age to the "volcanic remnants" that make up the nearby ranges. I recommend looking a the book (compiled by 59 Geologists) Intraplate Volcanism in Eastern Australia and New Zealand (for which I don't currently have a copy). maybe just site the blog www.nrgeology.blogspot.com.au for the time being... although it is a blog it has much more scientific background than a tourist leaflet. Yendor of yinn (talk) 05:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

If you can find a more reliable source for the geological origin of the mountain than I suggest you get your hands on it to support your claims and improve this article. I will do the same. - Shiftchange (talk) 06:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

On page 292 of The History of Geoconservation by P.J Boylan, published by the Geological Society in 2008, it states that the Border Ranges and Mount Warning are part of a major erosion caldera. The book you mentioned is also partially available via Google Books. I have used it to support the original height statement. It gets too complex and detailed with geological terms for me to use it any further. Also I created Galilee Basin this morning. Since you may have some geological knowledge could you please review it? - Shiftchange (talk) 06:55, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

sorry shiftchange, it took me ages to get back here. The term caldera is definitely incorrect, the term erosion caldera is not a term in common scientific use but has certainly been entrenched when referring to the Tweed Valley around mount Warning. I have managed to order the book I mentioned and I also now have access to a thesis which is quite informative... I'm actually a bit worried about starting to re-write the wiki article since so much needs to be modified. I'll get the courage to do this in the next month or two I think.

as far as the galilee basin goes... I'm afraid I don't know anything about it. I'm only familiar with the north east of NSW and South East of Queensland. But I'll have a look. Yendor of yinn (talk) 07:25, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

just an update to let you know I've not made any changes to the article. I look at it with trepidation! I'm not sure I'm an experienced enough editor to make the changes required. Maybe, I'll get the heart up to do it eventually... unless someone else can beat me to it Yendor of yinn (talk) 00:26, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Meaning of "Wollumbin"

Does "Wolumbin" mean "Cloudcatcher" or "fighting chief of the mountains" or Both? I always thought it was Cloud Catcher like wikipedia says yet I have just come across several sites that claim it means "fighting chief of the mountains". Thanx —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rudraksha (talk • contribs) 6 Oct 2005.

"cloudcatcher" seems to be the more commonly-attested, but none of the sources I've briefly looked into are particularly authorative. Perhaps both should be mentioned, without ascribing any certainty to one version over another, until some better source can be found.--cjllw | TALK 06:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Mt. Warning comes up as Mt. Waning .....

when you search for the word waning, I think it is just a typo. --Cmjtoner 18:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Suspect info

On 2007-10-18, some suspect info was added to the article by an anonymous user. Is there anything to back up the changes? I did a few quick google searches and only came up with mirrors of wikipedia (I know this is not an absolute test, but it is an indicator). --James (talk) 08:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

Does all this really belong in the lead? James Bray was appointed Enumerator of the Census of 1871 collecting data over an extensive area which stretched southward to Brunswick Heads, north to the border, east to the coast and west as far as settlement – it is this census which holds the original figures of the Aboriginal Protections Board - four collectors were appointed by James Bray to work the allotted areas. Three of whom were James Rowland [step brother of Joshua and James Bray], and Arthur and Louis Nixon – both brothers in law of Joshua Bray. James Bray fixed on march 27 1871 a the commencement date of their duties. It is this census that is the precursor to the creation of Aboriginal missions to the west of the converted Tweed Volcano and the dispossession of the Wollumbin tribe from their ancestral home Wollumbin Volcano I think this doesn't even really need to be in the article, let alone the lead. I would suggest changing it to The Census of 1871 was a precursor to the creation of Aboriginal missions to the west of the converted Tweed Volcano and the dispossession of the Wollumbin tribe from their ancestral home Wollumbin Volcano. Comments? DigitalC (talk) 06:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Less edit warring please

To restore a little balance to the article it needs more citations for claims regarding aboriginal significance and more information on geological and other aspects of the mountain such as climbing it. The article doesn't need edits which are likely to cause dispute or more information about aboriginal significance and early settlement, unless it is backed up with reliable sources. Let's do this, so we can all move on, because really this article of low importance is not controversial. - Shiftchange (talk) 02:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

We would appreciate your assistance to alter the false information on Wikipedia about Mt Warning. The name Wollumbin was stolen from my families Mountain and applied to Mt Warning as a false Dual name.

We have the anthropological studies from the Elders, 50 year old tapes, the 1977 NSW NPWS anthro study and the false transcripts used by national parks, dictionaries from the language speaking elders and hundreds of supporting documents, but cannot upload them to wiki and I am new to wiki. Apologies that references were not included but I am unsure how to include reference links. Professor Sharpes dictionary has the correct name for Mt Warning (Wulambiny) and is on the net. NSW Geo names board site shows that the name Wollumbin was stolen from Mt Wollumbin in 2005. We have the minutes from NSW GEO names board meetings where lie after lie was told to the board. The Elders are furious at this false info on Wikipedia.

wollumbinmountain —Preceding unsigned comment added by wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs) 04:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC) (Wollumbinmountain (talk) 04:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC))

Wrong Wollumbin. Mt Warning is Wulambiny

We would appreciate your assistance to alter the false information on Wikipedia about Mt Warning. The name Wollumbin was stolen from my families Mountain and applied to Mt Warning as a false Dual name.

We have the anthropological studies from the Elders, 50 year old tapes, the 1977 NSW NPWS anthro study and the false transcripts used by national parks, dictionaries from the language speaking elders and hundreds of supporting documents, but cannot upload them to wiki and I am new to wiki. Apologies that references were not included but I am unsure how to include reference links. Professor Sharpes dictionary has the correct name for Mt Warning (Wulambiny) and is on the net. NSW Geo names board site shows that the name Wollumbin was stolen from Mt Wollumbin in 2005. We have the minutes from NSW GEO names board meetings where lie after lie was told to the board. The Elders are furious at this false info on Wikipedia.

Wollumbinmountain —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs) 04:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs)

I've found a news story that Wollumbin was gazetted to Mount Warning[1] but thats all I've found. NSW DECC calls the Mountain Mount Warning (Wollumbin)[2][3] Bidgee (talk) 09:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I had a look at Geoscience Australia and found different coordinates for Mount Warning and Mount Wollumbin putting Wollumbin about 5.2km to the northeast of Mount Warning. There is a declared error of up to 1.8km in the coordinates, but both locations are due north of nearby peaks. It's interesting to note that Wollumbin Creek is a lot closer to Mount Warning than it is to Mount Wollumbin. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Adding to the above, the December 2008 issue of the "Placenames Australia" newsletter identifies Mt Warning as Wulambiny,[4] as do a few other references. Unfortunately they don't qualify as reliable sources. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Geographical Names Board of New South Wales search shows Wollumbin, Mt Wollumbin and Mount Warning. I suggest that User:Wollumbinmountain take their issue to the GNB or someone within the NSW Government rather then here. Bidgee (talk) 12:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a map showing Mount Wollumbin (585 m) a few kilometres to the north east of Mount Warning.<ref name="nswqldmap">{{cite map |publisher=[[NRMA]] |title=NSW Northern Rivers & South-East Queensland |edition=2 |year=1998 |cartography=[[Auslig]] |scale=1 : 550,000 |inset=Ballina to Tweed Heads |accessdate=2009-07-27 }}</ref> Would this be a reliable source to support the fact that Mount Warning is not Mount Wollumbin? - Shiftchange (talk) 07:49, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Wollumbin. Mt Warning is Wulambiny 2

Thank you AussieLegend and Bidgee for confirming that Geoscience Australia and NSW Geographical Names Board show Mt Warning is not Wollumbin.

Searching "Wulambiny" in Google Books reveals Linguistics Professor Margaret C Sharpe "Dictionary of Yugambeh (including Neighbouring Dialects)" published by Pacific Linguistics in 1998. ISBN 0858834804. Official information.

Professors Brian and Helen Geytenbeek lived with the Elders at Muli Muli from 1961 to 1967. They confirm Wulambiny is the name for Mt Warning.

We have the tapes from NSW NPWS Anthropologist Howard Creamer, who studied The Keeper of Lore, elder Millie Boyd in 1977. She described Mt Warning as Wulambiny Momoli (Turkey Nest). Mt Warning is the silhouette of a Scrub Turkey, separate to Wollumbin, the Fighting Chief, place of death.

My Great Great Grandparents are buried with their friends King Wollumbin Johny and his Queen Ellen, in the Wollumbin clans ancestral burial grounds, 3 ranges and 3 valleys away from Mt Warning.

Elder Millie Boyds son is sitting next to me as I write. My Great Grandfather was named Wollumbin Gum Jimmy by his Aboriginal friends. Gum means crossing, as in Byangum, Tyalgum, Tumbulgum etc. Wollumbin crossing is 3 valleys and 2 mountain ranges away from Mt Warning.

Incompetent researchers did not bother to consult NSW state maps, pioneering families from the mountains, or the Elders when they wrote false local history books claiming Mt Warning is Wollumbin Fighting Chief. Mt Warning has never been a part of Wollumbin parish, and our Mountain was mapped and Gazetted Mt Wollumbin in 1974.

They followed the false white myth that a face can be seen in Mt Warning. As you have confirmed AussieLegend, the official Geoscience Australia site shows my fathers mountain is Wollumbin and Mt Warning is not. Wikipedia Wollumbin info is false.

NSW lands department Maps also show the first village of Murwillumbah, 8 kilometers from where Murwillumbah is today. Murwillumbah moved in the early 1870s. Murwillumbah is New Murwillumbah.

Google murbah then go into History section to find some supporting documents and maps.

(Wollumbinmountain (talk) 06:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC))

Dear Wollumbinmountain, I have left a message on your user page offering to assist amend article, and particularly details of it's alternative names. I see you have given reference above .. which I will follow up later this evening .. and possibly adjust article to suit. Cheers Bruceanthro (talk) 07:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Wollumbin. Mt Warning is Wulambiny 3

So we have established that the official placenames registry of Australia confirms my families property is Wollumbin and Mt Warning is Mt Warning.

The countries top Linguistics Professors who worked with the language speaking Elders half a century ago said Mt Warning is Wulambiny.

Forgot to add that prominent pioneer Joshua Bray, first magistrate, my Great Grandfathers friend, (and my relative) who wrote numerous articles for Science of Man about the Tweed Aborigines, in his 1860s letters, while climbing Mt Warning called it Walumban and concurrently wrote about Wollumbin. (Mitchell Library Bray Files).

Remarkable that the Elders and Pioneer documents both record a linguistic distinction between the two Mountains and names.

I teach the countries top Professors about my families and Mountains history, as do the Elders who state the same.

This site does not even mention that Mt Warning was the Djurebil (increase site) for Scrub Turkey, the fact is recorded in many books, on the sign at Mt Warning, quite happy to include ISBN and titles of each publication.

Mt Warning is the silhouette of a Scrub Turkey. Its name was Wulambiny Momoli. Momoli means nest in Ngarakwal dialect, The Caldera.

Wollumbin means Fighting Chief, place of Death and is the Mountains North of Mt Warning.(Source, NSW NPWS Sites of Significance Anthropological Study by Howard Creamer and Elder Millie Boyd, The Keeper of Lore. 1977 Aiatsis Aboriginal Library Canberra.)NSW State Maps, Pioneering Families from the Mountains, living and dead Elders records, Linguistic and Anthropology and Ethnology Professors.

If you would like to be bombarded with documents supporting the fact that Wikipedias Wollumbin info is false, provide your email.

Wikipedia is also providing false information on many pages, claiming there was a Bundjalung nation when the Githabul were recognised as the Traditional Owners of Ten% of the State of NSW in 2007. Githabul are not Bundjalung. Tindale and other researchers showed the Badjalang between the Clarence and Richmond Rivers. Nowhere near the Tweed or Mt Warning.

Would appreciate the assistance of experienced Wikipedia Editors as I do not know how to insert pictures, generate reference links etc.

(Wollumbinmountain (talk) 14:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC))

Just a small hint, you don't need to create a new, identically named section each time you post. It's going to get really confusing if we end up with several sections, all titled "Wrong Wollumbin. Mt Warning is Wulambiny". --AussieLegend (talk) 14:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Wollumbin is not Mt Warning

Thanks AussieLegend. Remember I'm a newb.

(Wollumbinmountain (talk) 14:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC))

Here is the 1977 NSW NPWS Sites of Significance study by Anthropologist Howard Creamer and the Keeper of Lore Elder Millie Boyd, describing the real name for Mt Warning (Wulambiny Momoli) and its Aboriginal significance (Turkey Nest). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxWFuQAIbcE Wollumbin is the Fighting Chief, Place of Death and Dying, North of Mt Warning. Professor Margaret Sharpes Yugambeh Dictionary confirms Wulambiny as the name for Mt Warning.

Wollumbinmountain (talk) 01:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Problem is you have uploaded the video on YouTube so it's original research and YouTube isn't a reliable source therefore you can't add the content without a reliable source. Bidgee (talk) 01:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

it should be noted

This is the same mountain that is mentioned in the animated movie, Fern Gully. Yep, that is definitely accurate. 70.247.252.194 (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Facts refuting false Wollumbin Wiki page

The 2007 Githabul Federal Native Title Determination which cut the Bundjalung Nation apart can be viewed here. http://www.nntt.gov.au/Publications-And-Research/Publications/Documents/Multimedia%20and%20determination%20brochures/Determination%20brochure%20Githabul%20people%20November%202007.pdf

Linguistics Professor Margaret C Sharpe "Dictionary of Yugambeh (including Neighbouring Dialects)" published by Pacific Linguistics in 1998. ISBN 0858834804 states Mt Warning is Wulambiny.

Our land, our spirit : Aboriginal sites of North Coast New South Wales / by Jolanda Nayutah and Gail Finlay : North Coast Institute for Aboriginal Community Education, 1988. ISBN 0909210381 states Mt Warning is the Turkey.

Mount Warning was never a part of Wollumbin Parish, the Mountain to the Northeast of Mount Warning was mapped and gazetted Mt Wollumbin in 1972. (NSW maps) Wollumbinmountain (talk) 10:04, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Having looking up the ISBN they are reliable as they do exist but the main issue it they should be used for citing as a source (See Wikipedia:Citing sources/Example edits for different methods on how to do this) with content in your own words in a neutral point of view and must be about what is said/contained in the cited source. Also the naming issue should be in a new section under say "Controversy". Bidgee (talk) 10:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

It is more than just the name. It is also the false white myth lore that Mt Warning is Wollumbin Fighting Chief, and the Genocidal false Bundjalung statement.

The Controversy section will cover these topics.Wollumbinmountain (talk) 11:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

False Bundjalung Nation is Frasers Fabrication

Have found John Frasers' 1892 fabrication of Paikal-Yung in "The Aborigines of New South Wales" which researcher Norman Tindale twisted into Badjalang which then became Bundjalung.

Fraser states "The names Paikalyung (etc) I have made". This link is Frasers' 1892 book.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=K9Ix39XVANAC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=fraser+minyung&source=bl&ots=ADtH2GXbCo&sig=wh8tpCgV7rqcISVobP7uPyZjaRo&hl=en&ei=l8l4S6m9NInEsQOwt628Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Tindale stated (paidjal = badjal = man) but did not include the crucial facts about Frasers fabrication.

There was no Bundjalung Tribe, People, Nation, Language or Dialect Chain.

This link is Tindales book.http://www.samuseum.australia.sa.com/tindaletribes/badjalang.htm

Will add the controversy section including this incredible information that totally refutes Bundjalung. Wollumbinmountain (talk) 11:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Recent removal

I see no reason that a recent temporary closure of the track be removed from this article. Its pertinent because its a tourist attraction but more importantly because the track is the primary way to access the mountain. - Shiftchange (talk) 15:02, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)

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Wrong Wollumbin, fake Bundjalung Nation, controversy section.

Twelve years ago the Controversy section was to be added to this page, about time that it was as Bundjalung is just what white linguists called the language, Yugambeh in QLD, all the money has been wasted for two fake Nations in the one language group. Wollumbin was taken as the heritage and name of my family's peak and applied as a fake dual name to Mt Warning. The error in the NSW National Parks sites of significance study where the Keeper of Lore stated Wulambiny Momoli as the naame for Mt Warning and Wollumbin the Warrior as the place of death and burial has made all subsequent studies false. Germaine Greer wrote about these scandals in her book "White Beech" and i have run for Tweed Shire Council elections three times to expose the scandals of fake Wollumbin, Arakwal and Bundjalung National Parks and that all the money in Aboriginal Affairs and Native Title has been wasted on fake Nations, white mans fabnrications. Wollumbinmountain (talk) 21:59, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Controversy section.

Hi folks, will be adding the controversy section that was agreed on many years ago, many of the references in this page need to be removed, Germaine Greer wrote about the fake dual naming of Mt Warning (Wulambiny Momoli) in 2013 and not even a mention here, need to get some facts on this page. James McKenzie Wollumbinmountain (talk) 19:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

historical irrelevance

Courtesy links for context: added, removed, added. See also similar disagreement at Talk:Corowa#If the rally is historically insignificant why was it all over the news for weeks then?. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:00, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I fail to see how the nazi hike is irrelevant when it was also widely covered in the news especially when lesser known incidents such as "n 2024, Libertarian politician John Ruddick led a petition to reopen the track which garnered over the required 10,000 signatures to trigger a debate in the New South Wales Legislative Council on 9 May 2024." are being mentioned in the article with contest. The closing of the hiking trail remains controversial and clearly if it wasn't relevant this event wouldn't have been talked about. Meow1111xd (talk) 15:14, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

So what is the historical relevance of an event where:

• Nobody was charged with any crime
• There was no impact on Mt Warning (the article topic) or the walking track (the topic of the article section)
• There is no indication that the event will have any impact on the mountain or the track

? Mitch Ames (talk) 06:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

We cannot comment on the historical significance of recent events while still in the present as that would require a crystal ball, which Wikipedia is not. However for this event to be considered notable, which is the applicable standard here, there is more than sufficient coverage in reliable, independent sources.[5][6][7].

Notwithstanding any historical significance of this event, there is certainly cultural significance! In this article, there are four paragraphs detailing the cultural significance of Wollumbin to the Bundjalung people. There is discussion about the closure of the track and unsourced speculation about the motives behind this. And there is a paragraph that talks about John Ruddick's opposition and petitions to the NSW parliament. Although, I note there nothing about his own defiance of the climbing ban in August when he accompanied Marc Hendrickx (who was fined several weeks later) to the summit.

I disagree that a large, politically motivated group climbing the closed track and photographing themselves with banners that said "Mount Warning for the White Man!" in the context of a nearly 4 year long dispute centred on cultural and political issues is insignificant or WP:RECENTISM. I'd also argue excluding content about this rally may create issues with the article's neutrality regarding the dispute.Dfadden (talk) 12:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

simply that it attracted media attention and led to a police investigation which is still ongoing I think it is completely relevant to the indefinite closure/ban of the hiking trail Meow1111xd (talk) 17:05, 24 December 2024 (UTC)